Land banking and collective investment (continued)"Collective investment scheme" means any arrangements with respect to property of any description, including money, the purpose or effect of which is to enable persons taking part in the arrangements (whether by becoming owners of the property or any part of it or otherwise) to participate in or receive profits or income arising from the acquisition, holding, management or disposal of the property or sums paid out of such profits or income.
This is a broad definition and would clearly include traditional land banking scenarios where planning assistance was part of the service offered. However, in its press release following action against Actionjack (trading as English Land Partnerships), the Insolvency Service says:
[This was an unauthorised collective investment scheme] because individuals were investing in a plot of land in anticipation of planning permission being obtained on the site as a whole resulting in the value of their plot increasing.
The test here is solely whether investors are buying plots expecting just their own plot to increase in value or every other plot at the site.
Any reasonable person would expect any increase in value to apply to whole sites and not just to an individual plot and this could imply that any land banking scheme might be considered a collective investment scheme, regardless of whether any planning assistance is offered by the plot seller or any third party, and regardless of what the land banker says.
So, from the perspective of a plot purchaser, is collective investment such a bad thing?
In fact it is not. Correctly implemented and properly authorised, a land banking scheme which was also operated as a collective investment scheme would actually be a very good thing for investors for a number of reasons among which are:
The question any prospective plot purchaser must ask is, why are so many land bankers so anxious to demonstrate that their schemes have none of these desirable characteristics? In other words, why do they not want to be regulated?
Be sure you have a satisfactory answer to this before parting with any money.
1. JAKUB18/05/2007 09:35:58
Hi somebody help me. I bought land form Rubicon Estate and office now is closed. Its look like my money are gone.
I WONT MY MONEY BACK.
Please help.
2. dkl18/05/2007 10:16:49
I am not geting the plot of land in Swindon marketed by Land International!
This plot of land sits between Swindon and Wootton Bassett. Land International tried to convince me that the land west of Wootton Bassett is designated "greenbelt", and thus the only natural way for the expansion of housing is towards Swindon - and this land sits nicely in this path.
They were WRONG!
In fact, in 2003, land to the west of Wootton Bassett was removed from "rural buffer" status. This means that the very plot of Land International tried to sell will now be even more fiercely protected by residences and authorities! Read:
http://archive.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/2003/1/27/166083.html
Also, the Witshire and Swindon Structure Plan 2016, specifically designated the area where the piece of land sits as "historic environment". Info can be found here:
http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/environment-and-planning/planning-home/planning-saved-local-plans/planning-structure-plan.htm
(click Swindon Area Inset to Key Diagram)
In essence, Land International was trying to sell me a plot of land with little probability of housing permission being granted. I'm staying away from this for now... 
3. kerstin18/05/2007 17:41:49
hello, has anyone else bought land through Libertas or Townfield...please let me know....THANK YOU!!!!::
4. Will Smith20/05/2007 21:53:49
Hey look at this:
http://www.hamiltonbentley.co.uk/services/security_of_your_money/
A nice little CIS!
Never heard of these before!
On their 4th Phase!
5. PropertySCAM20/05/2007 22:12:25
Their legal statement explains everything 
http://www.hamiltonbentley.co.uk/legal_statement/
6. Laguna20/05/2007 23:05:38
Legal expenses
Do you have Home Contents Insurance? (Or perhaps some other type of Insurance cover?) Your Policy might cover legal assistance. Last week I remembered that mine does. My case is now in the hands of solicitors nominated by my Insurance Company. I haven't heard from the solicitors yet, and it might be a no-hoper, but at least I don't have to pay them to tell me that.
Why not check out your Insurance Policies?
Best wishes to all.
Laguna
7. comment posted by [removed]21/05/2007 20:55:44
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
8. Will Smith23/05/2007 16:29:56
WOW
That ex-company Property-Spy are going some, 4 plots of land up for sale now:
http://www.insitelandinvestments.com/index.asp
Has anyone got their old, or new sales conditions to send me? It will be so interesting to read.
9. J.T24/05/2007 14:22:36
Why has this not got more attention?
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page91?oid=90883&sn=Detail
10. Will Smith24/05/2007 17:33:27
Ref: 9
I beleive it was raised on here, but the link went to a company with a £ charge.
WWOOWWW Seems like a lot of LOANS in there!
Phewwwwwww if I was an owner of a plot of land bought from one of their companies... I'd be pooping myself! Time is ticking on!
Oh found this one the other day too!
http://www.stjamesland.com/
I know there's more! Can't find them in my favourites!
You naughty boys UKLI!
11. B.T30/05/2007 19:34:49
I purchased 2 plots from English Land Purchased, thinking it was a good investment. Total costs £17,000. One in Great Kingshill and the other in Weybridge. Kingshill was registered but Weybridge has yet to be registered. Originally Browns Solicitors were dealing with the registeration. The documents were not registered and firm called Byrne Partnership acting on behalf of ELP said they would register it for a fee of £250.00. At this point I decided to do some research and learnt that ELP have been wounded up. Has anyone had any response from ELP or the official receiver. Where do i stand now?Will I get anything back?
12. comment posted by [removed]31/05/2007 19:52:43
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
13. comment posted by [removed]01/06/2007 22:49:11
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
14. Rob and Sian - (Cardiff)04/06/2007 10:01:31
we have 3 plots at southwold with TownField (naughty boys!)
Please contact us sianlewis68@yahoo.co.uk
Thanks
Rob and Sian (Cardiff)
15. David Chong04/06/2007 21:37:27
Homepage: http://david-chong.blogspot.com
I am referring to a comment by Alex, that states "Another interesting fact is that David Chong of Walton has now joined Edgeworth Properties. To proof this, download the e-book... It seems that all the competitors in here are all inter-related. Are all these company owned by the same group of people. What are the legal ways to take action on this people?"
Firstly Alex, THIS website is devoted to property scams in UK. Walton International and Edgeworth Properties are dealing with Canadian land. The land development process there is very different from UK. I don't see why you should include me in your comments.
Secondly, there is no proven track record in UK land but there are investors whom made their profit with Canadian land. I have personally helped my clients to make a profit in Canadian land.
Thirdly, land banking in Canada is a booming industry with several companies setting up offices in Asia including in Malaysia. In an industry, it is common to switch companies in your career due to various reasons. What so interesting about this fact? With more land banking companies, there are more choices for clients to invest and with greater competition between companies, it is the clients that usually benefits.
Fourthly, if you claim to have downloaded my eBook... have you actually read it completely? I do NOT recommend investing in UK land at the moment due to various issues such as those highlighted here. I am in AGREEMENT with PropertyScam. Do you actually 'comprehend' the differences I have highlighted in my eBook between Canadian and UK land?
Lastly, to satisfy your curiosity. Walton International and Edgeworth Properties are NOT related whatsoever. They are competitors with very different business models. None of the directors in Edgeworth were previously from Walton International and vice versa.
For those who are unclear on my stand on UK land, do get a copy of my free eBook by subscribing to my blog at david-chong.blogspot.com http://david-chong.blogspot.com and hopefully you will understand my eBook better than our friend Alex
16. Linda Harrison05/06/2007 20:19:20
We have been approached by Hamilton Bently and Partners to buy a plot in Essex. Do you know much about them? Does anyone know anything about them because to us, they seem legit.
17. PropertySCAM05/06/2007 22:09:26
Linda, read the definition of Collective Investment Scheme above, then read this:
http://www.hamiltonbentley.co.uk/services/planning_process/
If this seems to you to fall within the definition, then you may want to ask them about their FSA authorisation to operate it.
18. Kerri07/06/2007 14:41:45
I am considering investing with Jardine Smith for a plot at North Bitchburn, Durham. As this is my fisrt time in land investment, I am a bit nervous. Does anyone know about Jardine Smith? I have searched the web for their information, but all the websites I come across are by the company. I would appreciate a neutral party who has invested with them. Also can anyone advise me how to research about the plot at North Bitchburn and the probability if obtaining planning permission.
19. JOSIE07/06/2007 23:29:46
hi
anyone had dealings with THE PROPERTY PARTNERSHIP based in regent st london
have so say sold out of land on thames valley gateway now have land in northamptionshire.
would like to know if they are scammers or not.
josie.
20. Malcolm Hewling08/06/2007 19:55:40
As i read through all the respective comments it is obvious we are all running around like headless chickens - and getting knowhere fast. As mentioned in a previous comment i purchased 2 plots of land at Sible Hedingham and one at Marlow via Hambrook & Greenstock. I fully realise there are no easy answers, apart from possibly spending more hard earned money on legal fees - and then there are no guarentees.
Today, as a matter of curiosity i arranged a consultation with my local Member of Parliament and Land Banking was apparently discussed in the 'House' last week.He did not reveal what was actually discussed but requested i provide him with as much information / paperwork as possible. Although he would not promise a positive outcome, he certainly assured me he would investigate and do his utmost. May be an idea for everyone to embrace their local MP's.
Bear in mind John Prescott's presence on the stand when Hambrook & Greenstock were promoting their 'product'.
21. karen14/06/2007 14:59:29
I have recently been approached by consolidated land uk to buy a plot in whitstable, Kent. Anybody know if they are legit? K
22. David Horne22/06/2007 04:25:34
I've read with interest all the remarks above, land banking this, FSA that... but simple truth is the FSA and DTI are pushing a square peg through a round hole. The FSA’s half hearted interference is complicating matters. The point is THERE ARE SCAMMERS OUT THERE, but not all companies are scammers. THE CONCEPT is SOUND, IF you follow simple due diligence and ask the right questions. (If you’re interested I’ve listed some questions below.)
The FSA aren’t actually helping, because if you look at what they are saying its simple if you’re selling a CIS you need to be authorized. Fine, get authorized. If you’re a land banking charlatans selling hope plots with no mechanics to achieve planning, or have no group consolidation we don’t care! Everyone thinks that the FSA are shutting them down for land banking? They aren’t! They are using their round hole?! And pushing everyone through it to try and clean up the charlatans.
But what is a collective investment scheme anyhow? In Townfield’s case it’s the mechanics to realize the investment. (Incidentally, by closing Townfield down they have done the opposite of what they should do, which is protecting the investor, shutting them down does not protect the investor! How can the investor realize the planning of the site without the expertise of the developer?)
A collective investment scheme is what is stated in the FSA guidance. (Er, Hmm.. Yes, that’s what it is! Everyone clear?! NO THEY ARENT!) In short the FSA don’t have a legal precedence to follow yet? Any high court judgments made? (Townfield Pending)
The FSA take a simple view, if the site is treated as a whole it COULD BE a CIS, if there is a buy back, it’s closer, and if there’s no day to day control from the investors perspective it’s even closer….
BUT what if:
* The lands sold as land only (nope we’re not interested, woo hoo shouts the charlatans!)
* What if the owners set up their own management company…(hmm say the FSA)
* What if the owners appoint there own planning consultant via there newly created management company (hmm say the FSA, again)
* What if the owners get to vote on decisions that need to be made (hmm say the FSA, once again!)
The point is the mechanics are needed, how the mechanics are conducted is the FSA stance. The fact remains the sites NEED to be conducted and managed as a whole to be realized. (would a developer apply to build 100 houses individually? Of course not!) But the DTI and the FSA are using this round hole incorrectly, they should be considering new bodies to govern land, and planning uplifts, and they should be protecting the investors, offering a solution, clear advice to investors that have come unstuck.
A body could provide a resource to help the owners who have problems, and putting the owners in contact with each other would be a start, providing them with the planning tools resources is another point. People have been duped, unfortunately, but where’s the land they have brought? Is it on a town boundary? Does it have promise in the future? Hope isn’t lost… after all who’s to say that in 20 years we aren’t going to need any more houses?! There might be hope for these people. Milton Keynes didn’t exist 25 years ago?! Not a brilliant example I know but you can see my point, housing is required.
The real questions people should be asking are:
1) Where is the land, is it on a town boundary?
2) Is the area included in the Local Development Framework?
3) How is planning going to be achieved?
4) Is there an independent feasibility study on site?
5) Is there an independent planning consultant on board staking their reputation on the planning applications?
6) Are the mechanics of the process sound?
(Collective investment scheme aside how will it work?)
*Points 1,2,3,4 are points that a developer would ask prior to any acquisition.
If these questions can be answered correctly, with Bona fide examples there is a possibility of a good healthy return, but for the record, I’m not advocating land banking, and if you are interested do not fall for a sales pitch, don’t trust the sales person. Do your own due diligence, and if you’re not sure, stay clear.
Another thing for the record, I have an extensive property portfolio, and I own a plot in a place called little Chalfont, the sites 500 yards from the metropolitan tube station, the management company was formed independently of the land company, so is my investment secure, yes? Is it collective? Ask the FSA… (hmmm they say! In that case leave us alone please) Is planning coming, well I’ve just read the 30 page transport study conducted by the independent experts, and we’re just waiting for the council to pull their finger out and provide the housing needs studies that were due last April. (I’m not naming any names, as I don’t wish to create any false hope or advertising.) But if anyone is interested, do your due diligences, ask the questions.
Good Luck David.
david@forecastdesign.co.uk
23. alasdair hastie22/06/2007 14:00:03
New SCAM Company -
Just been called on 01908277078
Made the guys aware they are a scam and the bottled it on the phone..! 
24. Chris Myers25/06/2007 16:42:32
Does anyone know what is happening with ELP. Are we going to get our money back ?
All potential land banking investors be wary
Chris
25. comment posted by [removed]25/06/2007 16:43:23
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
26. soulcurry27/06/2007 13:10:16
UKLI have approached me for one of their plots in New Addington, Bromley. Unlike Property Spy, Country wide,etc I havent seen a lot of bad things about UKLI on this site. What do the experts on the forum have to say about UKLI and their venture at New Addington, Bromley? After reading about all the duped investors , I am a little wary of the whole thing. The only reason I am still considering it is that I havent seen anyone on this forum duped by UKLI. Anyone out here who has been duped by UKLI or has scary stories about them.
27. J.T27/06/2007 17:17:44
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page91?oid=90883&sn=Detail
Think on.
28. ACR28/06/2007 01:00:40
Anyone who bought via ELP please lets get together.....
29. ACR28/06/2007 01:02:17
Anyone who bought via ELP please lets get together.....
30. comment posted by [removed]01/07/2007 18:36:03
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
31. Will Smith01/07/2007 18:57:45
Ref: 30
Busy B.. Gilbert Estates is run/owed/commanded by Baron Deschauer.
This was one he made earlier.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2734769.stm
32. Koen04/07/2007 10:23:57
Anybody out there know more about due dilligence on plots in Raunds, Northamptonshire. See http://www.thorntonridgelanddevelopments.com/
Thanks,
Koen
33. Will Smith04/07/2007 12:31:05
Ref: 32
The company you refer to is in fact nationwide-land-estates, that has been mentioned on this site before for running a CIS:
www.nationwide-land-estates.co.uk
Now is it a new name, different rules?
34. H06/07/2007 20:18:50
I also bought a plot of land in ruislip from property spy .If you have can you contact me. We can set up a group forum for that site and decide what action to take as a group. my email : nl004h8833@blueyonder.co.uk
35. mariner11/07/2007 00:14:27
I have bought a plot at scholes through englishlandpartnership and a plot at southwold through townfield. Both times the agent was ben chancellor who I am still in contact with! He failed to inform me that the company he works for got wound up! Must hear from scholes meadow investors!!!! Whats the best thing to do????
36. saqib13/07/2007 21:31:25
I also have bought plots from prpoertyspy on 3 different sites which were styal,impington and little chalfont could you please advise what is the best course of action against them.can we sue or can we apply planning permission jointly please advise.
37. Andy18/07/2007 01:27:57
Hi, We are trying to contact others who have bought plots though Glebe Estates (who have been taken in to administration). I note there are two previous posts re Glebe plot owners. We are not tearing our hair out over this situation.
Unless we have evidence to the contrary we have no reason to believe Glebe Estates were running a scam. Administators are called in when creditors are not paid. Does not indicate, in this instance, that Glebe were or were not running a scam.
We own two plots in a field adjacent to good roads and other developments. We would like to to be pro-active. Therefore if the Glebe Estates plot owners band together - perhaps we can investigate taking up the challenge of seeking planning consent - or possible employing a suitable consultant(s) to do so for us.
Glebe Plot Owners can contact us in confidence at jan1-land@usa.net
38. Anita26/07/2007 10:09:38
Hi, I've been approached by various Land Banking companies. The latest company, Consolidated Land UK has been calling me for a couple of weeks- good salesman or has as he calls himself, Senior Broker.
'Fact 1': According to the gentleman, there is some regulation that prohibits me from meeting with him. This is to ensure that he will not lie to me. Is this true????
'Fact 2': Land banking is not regulated by the FSA??
I do believe there are legit companies out there- just need to know how to find them.
39. john rogers07/08/2007 16:02:43
Hi - I note that many have purchased land plots through ILSAD/UPA; in particular at Burpham. Has anyone got any information, contacts or know the process, to start the planning application process on behalf of all plotowners? Whoever takes this task on being rewarded on a commission basis? Just a thought - but good to hear from anyone who thinks there are any next steps.
JOHN (john.rogers8@virgin.net)
40. Lee08/08/2007 14:36:48
I recently bought a plot through Jardine Smith International when they were doing a roadshow in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. Now I wonder if it was just a scam after reading all this! I paid GBP10K for the plot 
I tried to call them earlier to ask about the Title Deed but they have moved their office (after just a few weeks of grand opening!). So the call didn't get through. So is JSI approved by the FSA? How do I check on that matter? Are there any Malaysian buyers getting together to get their money back?
41. Lee08/08/2007 14:44:37
I would really appreciate if anyone knows how to get our hard-earned money back or take legal actions against them. Please let me know at gvoyager@gmail.com
42. jERRY hEALY08/08/2007 16:48:19
Purchased Land Plots. Co.(elp)gone
43. jERRY hEALY08/08/2007 17:04:24
Invested £46,425-00 with ELP at Everton andGODALMING Surrey
44. Lee08/08/2007 17:47:09
Jerry.. did u ever get the title deed that you were supposed to received?
Lee gvoyager@gmail.com
45. comment posted by [removed]08/08/2007 17:49:32
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
46. comment posted by [removed]08/08/2007 18:26:46
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
47. Black Knight09/08/2007 10:00:37
Lee,
Re: #40. For such a sophisticated investor, I am surprised that you have not done any due diligence on JSI before your purchase. If you have done so you would know that they are not UK based and the land they are selling is a grid system. Buying a UK land from a non-UK based company? Sounds pretty dodgy to me.
Your posting #46 explains a lot by it’s omission. Are you in the employ of Land International? And are you aware that the land in Swindon sold by LI have electrical power over it? I heard some investor visited the land and saw the pylon and wanted to sue the sales people for money back because they specifically pointed out that the land “Do Not Have Electrical Pylons Over It”. The sales people in turn are suing the company for omitting the fact and maybe doctoring the picture in their documents. There is a lot of hoo ha right now in Singapore.
Mike (#45) is right. There will be more scammers offering everything as well as some genuine ones as the region got more prosperous. Just do not fall for an offer that is too good to be true. ‘cos usually it is. Like they say in the 80’s Hill Street Blues serial “… Hey people, be careful out there.”
48. raff simpson13/08/2007 01:21:22
hi, i recently invested 289thousand with countrywide landholdings. they promised a return on my investment of about 8 to 10 times my money. ive just come across this site by chance tonight and am absolutly pooping it now. the only corespondance has been a receipt for the money. has any one else out there had dealings with this company and if so could you let me know if your having difficulty with them. they bullshitted about some olympic site land
49. Will Smith14/08/2007 17:43:30
Hey how has that PROPERTY SPY site.. oppppps now insiteinvestments.com site sold all its land so quickly?
Have they sold them all, OR been closed down again?
Look for another Company re-start!
50. comment posted by [removed]16/08/2007 19:44:27
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
51. M Ali28/08/2007 15:33:40
Hi,
Bought two plots from Countrywide land holdings and although took 3-4months in total, all have been transfered and registered correclty. Now its just matter of waiting 4-7years for some planning of some sort I guess...
52. Jenny29/08/2007 18:24:06
I have purchased several sites through Countrywide and have found them to be extremely helpful and not at all pushy. I have received receipts and TP1s in a timely fashion and have subsequently received further paperwork for all my sites from the Land Registry, so at the moment I sit and wait for further progress. There was initially a little delay with some paperwork from Cain Associates but purely because of the volume of paperwork going through and my broker chased this up satisfactorily for me.
53. PropertySCAM29/08/2007 19:27:00
Thanks for dropping by. Have you given any thought to your exit strategy? You now own several plots of land. You must have some idea how any latent value locked in this investment will be released - it won't just happen.
http://www.propertyscam.org.uk/htdocs/fivemyths.htm
54. ong yan ying31/08/2007 07:27:07
hi,
i started as an investor in walton international grp (S) pte ltd
and i am currently a walton international landbanking consultant.
if anyone of you would like to find out more about walton or wat exactly is landbanking, do contact me at yanying8@gmail.com.
then i'll see if our time schedule could work out.
and perhaps, i can invite you over to 1-fullerton my office.
walton international has been around for 28yrs in the global market.
11yrs in spore. we are the ASIA headquarter.
canadians are using their pension funds to invest.
preston manning is in our executive committee.
if you have time, google search "preston manning" ya? and you will know how come walton project never failed to exit. how come we had paid off to investors more than half a billion dollars.
our audited ROR for these 28yrs are in fact 20.96% PA simplised. and 13.61% compounded PA.
it's capital protection as well.
many reputable figures in spore are also our investors, but it's my integrity not to reveal their names here.
GOd bless & take care!
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His O N L Y begotten Son to die for us...so that whosoever believe, will not perish but have eternal life "
yanying08.
55. comment posted by [removed]01/09/2007 03:01:25
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
56. The Finchampstead Society03/09/2007 23:30:17
Re Henry at 55: Look at the link given at post 9 on this thread/ study the information on this site and consider stopping the cheque if you are not too late!
57. Tom06/09/2007 14:54:50
I have invested in a number of plots with Countrywide Land Holdings over the last 18 months and I have received all the relevant title documents from Cain Associates. Having recently read all the posts on this site I became extremely concerned about my investments and on checking the Companies House website found that there was a proposal in place to strike off the company for non submission of accounts and annual return.
The consequence of this would be that the company would be disolved and therefore would be unable to arrange planning permission for any of the sites sold.
I have tried to contact Countrywide Land Holdings on three occasions this week to get an explanation and on each attempt have been met by a recorded message. Despite leaving a message on each occasion I have yet to receive a return call.
I am now strongly of the opinion that my investment is worthless and that I am now one of the many victims of this property scam.
I have contacted Companies House and requested them to put the strike off proposal on hold to at least keep the company alive though not sure what good it will do in the long run.
Tom
58. SANDEEP06/09/2007 16:44:11
Anyone bought land from either UKLI or Grosvenor Land Brokerage. I bought a piece of plot from each at a cost of £10,000. Just wanted to know if I should be worried?
The first plot is in Finchampstead and the other in Raunds (Northamptonshire) . I have received the registry documents from ULKI and only a signed agreement from Grosvenor.
I paid via a credit card.
Any comments would be useful.
Thanks
59. Martin Gauci06/09/2007 19:22:18
Hi all.
I purchased a plot of land with Townfield Land Investments last year on the Southwolds Site. I paid 9k and have received all documentation re; Land Registry etc. I had a phone call back in Feb from a director explaining that they had to cease trading because they were not regulated by the FSA. However, he explained the land I purchased was still mine and I could do as I pleased with it while TLI was being investigated. So I left it at that for the time being.
I came home yesterday to find a letter saying TLI has gone into liquidation and I don't know what to do. Can anyone help or got advise? Is my land still safe? Has anyone else invested with Townfields?
E-mail: martingauci@hotmail.co.uk
:-
60. chimp07/09/2007 15:02:59
hi, i bought a plot from ELP 2 years ago. Lots of dodgy correspondence til about a year ago then zip. Also have a plot with UKLI. Am worried the whole lot is already down the pan !!! Who can help me? Ive spoken to a few solicitors and they say its not their thing. what sort of solicitor do i need ???
Can anyone help?
61. SANDEEP 07/09/2007 15:57:03
Chimp - contact the Law Society to get solicitors who specliase in Land Purchases in your area. Also have a look at the FSA website and search for Landbanking. I have numbers for 3 solicitors from the Law Soc but have not called them yet.
You may also be able to get compensation from the credit card company (assuming you paid via credit card).
What plot do yo have with UKLI?
My email address is: sandeep247@hotmail.com
62. comment posted by [removed]11/09/2007 16:00:03
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
63. Goupillon12/09/2007 12:30:09
Re 62: Chris - I have been lobbying Government Departments and MPs for about 1 year now proposing the only way to stop the "Big Scam" is to bring in a change in the planning law making the subdivision of pieces of land larger than 1 hectare subject to planning permission. Planners would be directed to normally award permission where bona fide reasons given for the application which would include investment companies registered with the FSA. Planning permission would not be given to any individual or organisation which appeared to be setting up an unauthorised Collective Investment Scheme. The onus of proof of bona fide intent would be put on the applicant and not the Planning Authority.
If you or anybody else has a better idea to put an end to this problem please state it on this site
64. skaria12/09/2007 13:51:58
Hi,
I am considering buying land for long term investment purposes.
What types of land will be good?
Have you heard about strategiclandinvestments?(http://www.strategiclandinvestments.co.uk)
Kindly advise me if they are OK to deal with
Cheers
Skaria
65. john17/09/2007 20:58:55
re comment 64
Skaria,
after reading the comments on this site i cant believe you would still consider investing or wasting your money on this, it is clearly obvious you will not make any money, if this land was so good the companies selling it wouldnt be selling it to you.they would keep it, if they say they own a percent check with land registry and even then they can sell it after you have checked. all the speil the reps give you is very carefuly worded and you hear only what you want to hear, iv been approached on a number of occasions, they are all playing on your greed, it all sounds great to start with but do you research and think carefully before you part with your hard earned money, invest in a proven result, the return will be lower but who cares if you are actually going to get something back for your money
66. comment posted by [removed]21/09/2007 09:31:15
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
67. Lim23/09/2007 07:48:54
Hi, i just bought a plot of land at North Bitchburn from Jardin Smith International, is it trustworthy? Worried.
68. comment posted by [removed]27/09/2007 23:14:40
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
69. An objective view02/10/2007 09:19:17
Have read the postings. Generally, the sentiments on this board would have to be bad, otherwise why else would it be called the propertyscam site
Anyway, just an objective view. I do think that the lack of track record is not a strong argument against land investments, for the fact that it has only been in recent years that govt started paying attention to the housing needs
Also, i think to say that a land will never get land permission is also shortsighted. One just need to do their own due diligence to churn out articles where talks / discussions on green belt being built on.
So, i would say to those who come to this site, take heart, believe in your own judgement in facts and not be swayed by naysayers on this board nor the hard sales by the agents
70. PropertySCAM02/10/2007 10:14:00
For the information of other readers, "An objective view" (comment 69) posts anonymously from a network belonging to the Singapore government.
S/he has evidently not read this
http://www.propertyscam.org.uk/htdocs/fivemyths.htm
or this
http://www.jenman.com.au/NewsAlerts1.php?id=65
Development of land divided into small plots for onward sale to "investors" is effectively ruled out by that same subdivision.
71. comment posted by [removed]08/10/2007 07:56:19
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
72. BUSYBEE09/10/2007 11:55:41
Does anyone know who Graystoke Developmenst www.graydev.com is, they are selling land in Kent at £10,000 and say planning permiission is almost guaranteed, and that I will make £150,000. Is this real?
There website is www.graydev.com I do not believe they even own the land they are selling as I asked to see ownership documents which were not forthcoming. I am concerend that it is a fraud! 
73. BUSYBEE09/10/2007 12:06:31
Please let me know if anyone knows Graystone Developments UK Ltd. has anyone bought land from Graystone Developments, has anyone got the TP1 for land bought at Graystone Developments UK Ltd
www.graydev.com is there website. They sell land
74. peter10/10/2007 17:15:53
Fellow Concerned Investors
I am a Financial Advisor based in the UK who recommended Townfield
Land Investments to a few of my clients, two of whom purchased a plot.
I was naturally concerned by the latest developments although perhaps
for different reasons or in different ways to some of the other
contributors to this forum.
Being a Financial Advisor, I regularly deal with the FSA in my daily
work and whilst I believe in the theory of what they do, I am often
frustrated by the practice (as are many other professionals in the
financial industry). As I will demonstrate, the actions they take,
whilst intended to protect investors, often the opposite is achieved
and as an organization, one often gets the feeling that they are more
motivated by targets and disciplinary results then they are by
safeguarding the interests of investors. Townfield Land Investments
would be the perfect example.
Before talking further about the FSA, I would like first of all to
touch on the land banking concept per se. I did not recommend the
product to all of my clients for the simple reason that it is a very
high risk investment and not all are able to partake in such luxuries
as high risk investments. Of course with great risk comes great reward
(and visa versa). It was always clear to me and my clients that the
entire concept was highly speculative.
Indeed this was highlighted by the fact that Townfield stated in their
marketing materials and in their purchase contracts that planning
could not be guaranteed. It was always clear that should planning not
be forthcoming that the investment would not mature and a return would
not be realized. The reward however justified the risk, as far as my
two clients who proceeded were concerned. In the words of one of my
clients “this is a wild card in my portfolio and right now you’re not
offering me anything else that could produce anything near these sorts
of returns”. I might add that this particular client (whose permission
I sought before publishing this document) has a portfolio of
investments ranging from UK equities to Eastern European buy to lets
valued at approximately ₤250,000. The fact that he spent roughly
₤10,000 on this investment is an indicator of his perception of land
banking. As it happens, he was considering a further purchase at the
point that he was contacted by a director of Townfield and delivered
the disturbing and unfortunate news regarding the FSA.
I initially investigated land banking as an asset class on behalf of
my clients as a result of one of my clients receiving a call from
another land banking company called UK Land Investments. Having looked
at a number of companies, I chose Townfield over all of the others for
the primary reason (probably sole reason) that they had what I
believed to be a well thought out investment management structure in
the Site Management Company (SMC). Ironically this is exactly the
thing which culminated in the current state of affairs. As the
investment is speculative in principle I was less concerned by the
exact location of the land (within limits) and claimed experience of
the company in selecting it but rather with whether or not there was a
means to mature the investment and realize a return for investors
should the land one day be able to get planning.
My primary concerns, all of which were addressed by the Townfield SMC,
were as follows:
Fragmented Ownership – This reduces the value of the land asset due to
the fact that any purchaser would have to track down and negotiate
with numerous different land owners many years after the initial
investment was made. The SMC would have solved this by acting as a
single point of contact (which would have been noted by deed at the HM
Land Registry should Townfield have had the opportunity to register
the correct documentation on behalf of investors) and all investors
would have been obliged to conform with any majority decision
regarding a sale. A power of attorney would have given the SMC all of
the authority it required to consummate the sale on behalf of any
unwilling or non-contactable plot holders.
Planning – Most of the land banking companies at the time I conducted
my research claimed that they would assist clients in achieving
planning permission. My concern was whether they would have sufficient
capital to make good on this commitment or how this commitment would
be followed through if at some point in the future the company ceased
trading. The Townfield SMC would have solved this problem by placing
funds into the SMC, a completely independent corporate entity thus
safeguarding the crucial funding to mature the investment.
Residual Value – It was clear that the land was being sold at a
premium on agricultural land value (although I had not realized until
recently to quite what extent!), however without a structure like the
SMC in place it will be very challenging to sell any individual plot
of land, whereas the SMC would have at least provided investors with
the opportunity (as a result of a majority vote) to sell the entire
land site as a whole at some point in the future and recoup at least
some of their investment should planning not be achieved within an
acceptable time frame.
Rental Income – As most plot holders for Townfield will be aware,
there was a farmer tenant on the land for a fixed period of time. This
ensured that investors need not pay any ongoing costs for maintaining
the land. Of course once this tenancy expires, this will cease to be
the case and everyone will be reaching for their lawn mowers (as is
required to keep land in a reasonable state). The SMC would have
allowed the land to be rented out in the future and perhaps even
earned an income for its owners.
In summary, it was my view (and still is) that the Townfield SMC gave
a highly speculative investment the potential to perform. Indeed, even
in 20 to 50 years time and conceivably for generations to come, the
SMC would have had sufficient funding from bank interest on its cash
deposits to remain in waiting in a dormant state till the time was
right to apply for planning. Remember, should the land managed by the
SMC have achieved planning after 25 years then it is conceivable that
any returns that investors may have earned would have been
substantially higher (it is a well boasted statistic by land banking
companies that residential building land in the UK has increased in
value by over 1,400% in the last 25 years).
As it turns out, none of the benefits that investors would have seen
from the SMC will ever be realized due to the FSA’s decision to
terminate the activities of the company prior to them having had the
opportunity to implement the SMC structure. At the time that my
clients invested I requested copies of all of the contracts mentioned
in the Townfield SMC description brochure and was provided with over
200 pages of contracts including, the SMC Shareholder’s Agreement, the
SMC Management Agreement, the amended Memorandum of Articles of the
incorporated SMC, the Power of Attorney and a Deed of Covenant. At the
time, in light of these documents I was completely assured that
Townfield was acting in good faith and had every intension of
implementing the SMC. This remains my view.
Unfortunately, the SMC, the very thing that protected investors, fell
foul of a little known and obscure piece of financial legislation
known as Collective Investment Schemes (CIS). This legislation has
been applied over the years to various property schemes but until
recently it had never been applied to land investment. It was however
the only legislation available to the FSA as viable a tool to bear
down upon the land banking industry in accordance with the wishes of
their political bosses. As Townfield’s SMC structure allowed the
company to be classified as promoting a CIS it gave the FSA the
jurisdiction to intervene in the company’s affairs.
The irony is that a number of land banking companies are still in
business. These are the very companies that I advised my clients not
to invest with as I believed that they did not have sufficient
protections in place for investors. The FSA has no jurisdiction over
such companies however as they are not operating or promoting any
schemes that are defined as requiring the company to be regulated
under current legislation. Most notably, UK Land Investments continues
to trade selling Greenbelt land with no real explanation as to how
investors will achieve planning and how large numbers of fragmented
owners spread across the world from Birmingham to Delhi will be able
to sell their land even if it did get planning. Many of the companies
still trading are selling their land at far higher prices then
Townfield.
Having said all this, I am disappointed with Townfield for not having
more thoroughly researched the legislation, but truthfully I am more
disappointed with myself for not having done the same. As it turns
out, without the SMC, the investment is flawed. I was told by a
director of Townfield that they had sought legal advice at the outset
but that due to the fact that the legislation was both obscure and had
never been applied to land investing, it was not picked up on by their
lawyers. I must say that as someone who deals often with the
frustrations of a very complicated financial industry, I am not
surprised. Visit the FSA website and browse the legislation and on
Collective Investment Schemes (Volume 1 http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/cp/cp62a1.pdf,
Volume 2 http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/cp/cp62a2.pdf) and you will
understand (or not as the case may be).
I am also frustrated that the Townfield did not act more quickly to
implement the SMC, but what if they had? What would the FSA have done
then? Would they have dissolved the SMC, insisting that whilst it
represented the only remaining hope for the investors it would still
be taken away from them because it did not obey a rule designed for
some other form of investment sold ...
75. PropertySCAM10/10/2007 17:41:07
Questions for peter (comment 74)
- Were you aware of the markup on plots sold at Southwold when you advised clients to invest? The current value of that land is perhaps £6k per acre at most. Plots of c. 1/10 acre were sold for substantially more than that.
- Are you aware that the land at Southwold has the benefit of several protections, being green belt and an area of outstanding natural beauty and, in part, being flood plain and SSSI?
- In addition to your study of the financial aspects of the proposition, did you ever seek independent professional advice on the planning prospects at the site? Or did you just accept Townfield's position on the matter without challenge?
Finally, the definition of Collective Investment Scheme in the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (quoted in full near the top of this page) very clearly was intended to encompass this type of scheme, which Townfield would have been free to operate and offer to the market via approved parties such as yourself had they taken the trouble to apply for FSA authorisation to run it before they started.
76. BMP11/10/2007 15:02:13
I also bought land from ELP. Since the government have been aware of these scams for some time - ( more than 4 years) is there any chance that investors will receive their money back
77. Terry 11/10/2007 15:32:31
I also bought land from ELP. Since the government have been aware of these scams for some time - ( more than 4 years) is there any chance that investors will receive their money back
Err - No!
78. John Stevens15/10/2007 18:30:13
Hi
Graystone Developments. has anyone received the TP1 from this company , having bought land?
I don't know whether to proceed or not? Beginning to sound suspect
79. Richard Saw25/10/2007 06:27:54
Hi,
As long as the land is real. Don't too much. Company such as Walton in Canada is also doing the same thing for many years.
In live, you need to gamble. Otherwise, how can be rich.
80. Tris18429/10/2007 15:57:50
i have land country wide land holdings and 1 plot of land with Consolidated Land UK. If anyone else has got land with these companys or just wants to chat then email me: tris184@gmail.com
thanks
81. tattoo30/10/2007 09:19:38
On 29-10-2007 i put down a deposit for a plot in North Bitchburn, Durham to Jardin Smith International like a few others who have posted on this site and have 7 days cooling off period to reconsider the deal. Is there anyone that can share this investment risk and comments before i finalize or pull out because during the time spent at the promotion the deal looked peachy but there seems to be considerable risk especially with companies that are registered outside the country of which they are promoting.
Has anyone who has gone in already found out anything which questions the legitimacy of the deal/risk besides planning approval which is beyond present judgement??
82. PropertySCAM30/10/2007 17:00:40
tattoo - read the Wear Valley local plan here:
http://www.wearvalley.gov.uk/media/pdf/1/k/local_plan.pdf
In particular, note these paragraphs about North Bitchburn (page 128).
Strategy
The Local Plan aims to maintain the character and form of North Bitchburn by limiting further development to infill and redevelopment within the defined limits to developments.
Constraints
The village is located in a prominent position, development outside the existing village framework would be an inappropriate intrusion into the surrounding countryside. North Bitchburn has very limited facilities which could not serve the needs of a large amount of growth.
This seems to imply that any development outside of the existing boundary of North Bitchburn has been ruled out by planning policy.
83. yanying03/11/2007 15:47:55
Homepage: http://www.absolutesapphire.blogspot.com
hi,
this is yanying here.
i started as an investor earlier this yr. a total of 4units i have invested.
i am currently a manager in walton international i spore.
if anyone of you want to find out more in detailed about walton, landbanking or our current Grayson county proj.
do give me a buzz at:
yanying@gmail.com
or
97545658.
i can share with you more information or jus to educate you over 30-40mins.
at most i waste your 40mins of time.
else, you have nothing to lose.
if i can type everything this on the web, then seriously i do not need to meet so many directors and investors each day.
blogging and commenting on the Internet will be more than sufficient to make my job easy!
god bless & cheers~
84. PropertySCAM03/11/2007 16:58:36
Other readers should note that Walton is based in Canada.
We are primarily concerned with land banking in the UK here at PropertySCAM.
85. billyhaines07/11/2007 13:23:29
re comment 19 - have also been approached by the property partnership - glad I found this website, had a few alarm bells - certainly seems like a boiler room sales outfit to me, recieved a call re a plot near milton keynes - in towcester. after reading through what's on this site won't touch it with a barge-pole. has anyone else got any info either on the property partnership or the towcester site? company website;
http://www.thepropertypartnership.uk.com/index.html
thanks
86. billyhaines07/11/2007 13:33:20
re point 85. Of course I'd be equally happy to find out that they are fully legit, and it was just the sales approach that put me off - would hate to say anything libellous to a legit business - if anyone can clarify either way I'd appreciate it . The Property Partnership also have sites in Raunds and Medway
87. BFB08/11/2007 08:18:07
I have also been approached by The Property Partnership, approx 6 times in the last 4 months, and they just wont take no for an answer.
Any company that needs to employ such pressure sales techniques is to my mind somewhat less than 100% legitimate.
Bob
88. comment posted by [removed]16/11/2007 13:53:07
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
89. heebs03/12/2007 00:39:14
hello
I bough a plot of Scoles from ELP several years ago...very worried
If anyone has bought a plot of land from ELP..please e mail me...any advice or help or just share if you have been a victom of this scam..
saira3@gmail.com:-
90. Rama15/12/2007 17:01:48
I attended a presentation by Land International (Far East) Pte Ltd of Singapore, selling plots at Gatwick Crawley. After little googling I found this site - am I glad I did. Some more midnight oil later, I found the 'Gatwick Crawley Proposals map' at the govt site ( a google on the four words will take you there). So going through the glossies given to me in the presentation but did not come across a map telling me where the heck this land really is. They did show in the presentation the apparent exact location (google maps), but I guess that is no clear info, and may even be wrong.
Well, I think that if the GatCrawley piece in in Green Belt areas, that makes it a very high-risk investment at best or a scam at worst. After reading the state of land-banking scams in UK, I am off this one and am beginning to think of land-banking as somethings that IS too good to be true.
Other potential buyers may do well to consult this map before forking out their money. I frankly lost the motivation to check any further.
91. Rama19/12/2007 05:36:52
Further to comment #90 from me. I did venture further and ask for an exact map showing the location of the land in question from the LI rep the next day (16th). So far no reply. I would think that a map showing street names around the land would be the easiest thing for them to provide on request and should even be a part of the contract. With such a map and given the govt. proposal map I mentioned above, I am able to verify the status (e.g., green belt etc.) of the land. I also asked for a scanned copy of the OFT certificate given to LI so I could know what the certification is for - no response on that one either. None of this info is available on their web site either.
Hmm.. looks fishy to me. Any prospective buyers for Gatwick Crawley out there, do take note and ask for specific info like this. If you don't get it, and still fall for it, you've got none else to blame.
92. mike23/12/2007 07:23:34
ref comment 48, hi raff, sorry not been on this web site for a while
i purchased 1 plot from same company over 2yrs ago, wish this web site had been around then, was contacted by these about 10 months back for same plot has you, i just said f off and hung up. i felt bad and still do and only invested 12k which i borrowed, only got a nother 4 yrs or so to pay it off, looks like they have had a good feast on you, sorry mate
93. Linda28/12/2007 11:46:12
Has anyone purchased land in Leeds through Hayden James?
I recieved a letter stating that the FSA werelooking in to the way these companies operate and said they would keep investors posted but now all phone and website access is gone - salesmans phone rings and you can leave a message but no call ever returned.
Have i been duped out of my money.
Any info please
94. Timmins02/01/2008 23:16:51
Linda...We to have purchased 2 plots of land in Leeds from Hayden James..We've received deeds to the land, we went out to see the sight and all seemed rosey!!! HOWEVER.. We to received a letter from the FSA and since then have heard nothing!!.. Where do we go from here?!? we can't get in touch with them at all!!
Does anyone have any ideas?
Can anyone help us?!?
95. Lynda Z03/01/2008 14:46:30
ANYONE HEARD OF HAYDEN JAMES LAND ACQUISITIONS:
I purchased 2 plots of land in Bicester, Oxfordshire a few years ago for 40k and I have been trying to contact to no avail. I found today that their website www.haydenjames.co.uk is not longer found.
96. PropertySCAM03/01/2008 15:59:46
Do you have a company reg. no. for Hayden James? Is it the one in Barnsley, number 05644444? Companies House notes a proposal to strike this company off the companies register, and the accounts due on 5th Oct 07 are overdue. Looks as if it may be defunct.
97. Gordon K04/01/2008 15:57:51
I received a phone call from the Property Partnership and showed Their sales guy, a Mr Paul Clark some interest. I am currently awaiting a postal pack from them but have received an e-mail from them regarding a site in Rubery, Worcs. Whilst going to check out the web site of Property Partrnership I have come accross this site and I think the many comments have convinced me to stay well away from this kind of highly speculative and highly improbable kind of investment. Thanks for all the comments and I'll probably keep my money in the Building Society
98. justbilly06/01/2008 01:51:45
I bought a Wargrave plot from Property Spy 2 years ago and my heart sank when Property Spy shut shop in the spring last year. I read the articles in the press about the FSA and after many calls with PS (they never called back once) I started to wonder if this was a scam. Looking through these pages I think I have found my answer.
I have some (limited) potential good news on the Wargrave site, but need some help. I have lived in and around Wargrave for many years and know the council (Wokingham Council) have committed to building on Greenbelt land around Wargrave for ‘affordable housing’. We (the village residences) have been sent questionnaires and consultations have taken place in the local hall etc…
Also since my purchase, the land status has been changed from ‘greenbelt’ to ‘green wedge’ – I don’t think the two are directly connected, not sure what this means anyway.
Property Spy sold 50 plots in Wargrave and the council has signed up to building 12 affordable homes on the green belt. A site that was originally chosen in Nov07, on the other side of the village, has recently been dropped due to access restrictions. I doubt the council would negotiate with individual plots (our main problem) so how can we get together, find out who owns the plots, and collectively offer to the council without us being hit with this collective investment thing ourselves?
I could go on much more. I’m trying to be positive and hoping I haven’t got my head stuck in the sand. Just hoping that something positive may come out of this scam. I personally have over £20k invested that I can’t afford to lose.
Any help would be appreciated
justbilly@hotmail.com
99. justbilly06/01/2008 01:57:41
sorry, my email address is
justbilly@hotmail.co.uk
100. Graeme E07/01/2008 15:05:45
Has anyone had dealings with England & SVI - I've got 2 plots of theirs - Whitehore Views & Elvington Green. The firm has gone depressingly quiet and although the phone number still works, noone ever answers...
G
101. Timmins11/01/2008 15:56:32
With regards to my previous comments and comments number 93 and 95..Does it make any difference to the fact that we have deeds to plots of land?
This is a nightmare!!!!:
102. dennyboy18/01/2008 00:40:02
HEY ANYONE OUT THERE WHO CAN TELL ME IF THE PROPERTY PARNERSHIP LTD IS LEGIT OR IS IT BOGUS/SCAMMER!!
I HAVE INVESTED 10K IN THE TOWCESTER SITE!!
WILL I EVER SEE A RETURN!!
OR WIIL I BE OUT OF POCKET!!
REPLYS BACK TO: dennyboyuk@hotmail.co.uk
103. Chris18/01/2008 08:54:34
Response to the question posted by dennyboyuk@hotmail.co.uk.
I too was approached to invest in the Towcester site. When I viewed the UDP map it quite clearly showed that the site was within a site of histroical gardens and a conservation area. It also has a bridleway running through the middle of the site. As the site is isolated in terms of existing development I would consider it highly unlikely that this site will be considered for planning and future development therefore I did not invest.
Sorry, this is not what you want to hear.
104. ken19/01/2008 14:55:31
my partner was approached by the property partnership asking her to invest in land rubery worcestershire, guy called john lewis stating after 2 years of betweeen 6,000 and 10,000 investment,a return of 30-40,000 or 50-60,000 fter rezoning, have told her no way, too could to be true
105. Sukom8819/01/2008 19:32:03
Appreciate & many thanks to the above comments. Now, I'm scared to invest in UK Landbank. Are there any other readers who recently bought Jardine Smith UK Land Bank in S'pore & Kuala Lumpur ? Any regret & bad experience ?
106. Charles21/01/2008 17:28:28
I've been approached by the Property Partnership in relation to land in a number of places...Ashford, Milton Keynes etc.
The sales patter had all the hallmarks of a boiler-room scam (something which I'm more familiar with).
Has anyone got any contact details for The Property Partnership...email address, website, phone numbers etc. If so could you post them here or email to charles_pappenheim@lycos.com
Thanks
107. Landscam13/02/2008 16:06:29
Well, there is something fishy about Jardin Smith or Jardine Smith. I wonder why they changed their name. Try typing "Jardine Smith" with an "e" at the end - in Google or Yahoo and you will know why. Read the earlier postings in here and it also shows why. Maybe it is because of this that they have changed their company name.
Sukom88, you should actually take a proper look at their land. Ask them to allow you to zoom real close onto their piece of land and you will actually see the real flaws. Their land in Reigate, Surrey contains trees that are more than 500 years old. Their land in North Bitchburn, Durham also has high tension electric cables running across it and it is surrounded by non-development. Try typing North Bitchburn in wikipedia and you will realize that this is a dying town. What are the chances of getting planning permission with old trees or having the national / state electricity grid running on it?
I would call it an unfair investment. Have you tried asking them to show you the UK Land Registry title deed? Do you relize that the actual land value is not shown? If it is a fair value, then why is it not shown? If you go to UK Land Registry website to check, you will realize that they have bought the land for a steal. Good? But to get people like us to pay a bomb for it?
In conclusion, I rather put my money in an investment that is proven with a track record and not in one that is full of uncertainty.
108. SAFDAR14/02/2008 05:00:43
Hi,
I'm looking for information and help.I bought a Plot in Bryant Bottoms called BB2 in 2003 from United Plotowners Association ltd.They even took development charges later. Can anyone tells me that it was real or a fraud? because after that no one contacted me and looks like i was ripped.
SAFDAR (mohd_safdar@hotmail.com)
109. comment posted by [removed]19/02/2008 13:13:36
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
110. Black Knight20/02/2008 10:35:07
Hello Madiwala,
The follow-up articles
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page91?oid=90763&sn=Detail
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page91?oid=90764&sn=Detail
and the Moore Stephen resignation letter
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/action/media/downloadFile?media_fileid=987
are very interesting reading too.
Best Regards,
Black Knight.
111. comment posted by [removed]22/02/2008 16:35:08
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
112. Chris22/02/2008 21:15:50
To Linda, Timmns, & Linda Z & any other HAYDEN JAMES clients:
I too purchased a plot from Hayden James's site at Bramhope near Leeds. To all other plot owners it may be worthwhile getting in touch with each other. My e-mail address is heaven.eyes@tiscali.co.uk
My main concern is any liability I have as a plot owner for keeping things in good order. If the "investment" comes too naught fair enough but I want to avoid a millstone. If there is no future in owning the plot how does one dispose of it - even given away?
Chris
113. Terrence26/02/2008 14:58:35
I would like to check on "Collective Investment Scheme" for land banking under the FSA regulations.
Currently, there are 2 common exit strategies use by land banking companies when marketing land banking as in investment tool to potential investors:
1. Option to by back - The land company sold the land plots to multiple investors under a project (one piece of land subdivided into smaller pieces). Exit strategy: The Land Company is given the right in the "Sales and Purchase Agreement" that the company will buy back the land from individual plots owners at a later date when there is offer form developers or others at a price decided by the company. The plots owners are not given any choice to decide if price is reasonable and have to accept whatever price which the company would want to buy back.
2. Plot Owners' management company- The individual plots owners will get a freehold land title deed in their name from the Land Registry, UK. The exit strategy is that each plot owners will be giving voting rights according to the nos. of plots they own in the particular project. The plots owners can exercise thier voting rights whether they wish to sell the plots they owned at a particular price offered by the developers or others. However, it a legal binding arrangements that if 60% or more of the plots ownership decide to sell, the rest of 40% must also accept to sell.
My question is what is the FSA stand on both schemes.
Are these 2 schemes classified under the 'Collective Investment Scheme' or is there any exception ? Is these 2 schemes acceptable under the FSA Regulations ?
Rgds
Terrence
114. comment posted by [removed]09/03/2008 09:32:04
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115. S Armstrong20/03/2008 02:04:49
I purchased a plot of Land from a company called Land International about 2 years ago. I tried to contact them last month via e-mail but did not recieve a reply. Which then lead me to this forum... To say im worried would be the understament of the year. I have been paying 500 per month for about 2 1/2 years and finally finshed the payments this January.
I was promised by the sales people ie SUNITA PATEL that the company operated on a gareented re-sale policy which meant that they would by the land from me at the same price I paid for it if Planning permission was not granteed within 3 years. This was also displayed on their website which has now seemed to disapear.
I found the below information on the FSA website but I am unsure if I would be protected or stand any chance of getting my money back????
Any advice from you guys on here would be greatly apreciated....
Unauthorised operators of collective investment schemes are not covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS). However, if you have entered an agreement to participate in a Landbanking collective investment scheme which is run by an unauthorised person, you may have a statutory right to recover your money and compensation for any consequent losses. This is because agreements which an unauthorised person enters into while operating, advising on or arranging for persons to participate in a collective investment scheme cannot necessarily be enforced. You should contact the operator of any such scheme and/or a legal adviser to find out about your rights.
116. Collin22/03/2008 14:12:59
Jardin Smith claims that their land have been surveyed by independent chartered surveyors and that their land is part of the Local Development Framework.
After checking with a friend who works with the Local Development Framework, it can be said that they have never heard of Jardin Smith or even their chartered surveyors. In fact the land will never be part of the Local Development Framework.
I then decided to ask Jardin Smith staff if they have proof or a copy of the survey findings by the independent chartered surveyors. Amazingly, they claim that they have it but was unable to furnish me with such details. In my opinion, if they have it, they should have anything to hide. I wonder as to why are they so fishy.
Lesson learnt: Always ask them to show you the ORIGINAL copy of the survey findings by the independent chartered surveyors.
Another point to add, is that I found out that their office in London is actually housed in a virtual office. Ssssccccaaaarrrryyyyy!!! I would NEVER trust my investment with a company whereby their overseas branches are housed in a virtual shelf office. Sounds like a scam to me.
Any Singaporeans got scammed by them???
117. comment posted by [removed]24/03/2008 10:14:30
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118. gordon24/03/2008 15:53:15
the founder, main shareholder of UKLI supposedly the most reputable of the 'land bankers' bally chohan has been disqualified from being a company director for 'outright lies'
http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/investnews/article.htm?ArticleID=18516933
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b1450164-f557-11dc-a21b-000077b07658.html
http://www.creditman.biz/uk/members/news-view.asp?newsviewID=8287&id=1&mylocation=News&chksrc=NNow4251
http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3109239&c=1
119. R Douglass27/03/2008 20:41:07
It appears I have been a complete fool I invested 25,000 in a plot of land with English Land Partnership I am now distraught WHY no news forecasts about this scam??? I sometimes think we are just not important I have worked long and hard for this money and for once I took a gamble .....never again can anyone help on a course of action..I'm devastated by my lack of street knowledge ...or is it just they are so clever on the telephone that we cannot resist anyone PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN
120. jack29/03/2008 05:04:26
i almost invested in jardin smith until i came across this website.
thanks, guys......u have helped to make up my mind.....i am NEVER going to invest with jardin Smith.
by the way, what are your experiences with Walton International?
121. Richard29/03/2008 13:52:20
Any more news about the Hayden James investments in Leeds. We have our title deeds but nothing to do with them. We think we have lost a lot of money. MAybe those who have title deeds can get together and try to do something togther as a collective group. A farmer runs his cattle on our land and we get no rent and he gets the benefit. I think we are 'suckers'
122. comment posted by [removed]29/03/2008 16:08:52
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123. comment posted by [removed]30/03/2008 11:35:10
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124. prior30/03/2008 11:48:02
Garystone Developments scam selling fake land, see the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/mar/29/6
125. comment posted by [removed]01/04/2008 18:25:17
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126. comment posted by [removed]01/04/2008 18:41:02
[comment removed - see PropertySCAM comments policy]
127. comment posted by [removed]19/04/2008 20:29:30
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128. Davie 110/06/2008 00:01:05
Hi i too have recently invested in The property partnership. I invested 6k for a plot in Pickmere Knutsford Cheshire.
I see many others have asked as to whether this company is legitimate.
I had the same experience. Very pushy salesmen and woman. Over easily 40 calls over a number of months. I was not convinced but got convinced (hopefully not ripped off) I was promised pretty much a return in about 15 months. Does anyone have any happy stories regarding this company?
129. comment posted by [removed]10/06/2008 21:06:27
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130. PropertySCAM11/06/2008 08:56:28
Simon - comment 129 - please post only once. The other copy of your extensive opinion at http://www.propertyscam.org.uk/d6plinks/7FDB6Y#6 remains.
131. Warren brown13/07/2008 23:14:40
I purchased a plot at Elvington Green Kent. Land registry reference and itle number in my possession as as provided and completed by howlettclarke solicitors, Hove, East Sussex. A plotholders association has been set up by mr Edmund of Brighton and have a share certificate. I cannot obtain any response from anyone. Has anyone any news...
132. Martin17/07/2008 21:42:37
LLoyds and co have plots for sale in cemetry lane,Hadlow ,Tonbridge TNIIUK. Are they a legite company.www.lloydsandco.com 145-157 STjohn steet,London,EC1V4PY Has any body had dealings with them. Thankyou
133. Bassets22/07/2008 09:52:24
Re comment 78 by John Stevens - Has anybody had any sort of dealings with Greystone UK Limited. We would be interested to hear.
134. Martin11/08/2008 09:55:30
Hi
Has anyone bought plot of land in Great Kingshill from The Glenridge Group of Companies.Just worried.
135. Ross Charrot11/08/2008 14:01:36
Hi, If anyone has bought land at Great Kingshill through English Land Partnership, as I have please contact me on ross.charrot@mottgreenwall.co.uk. and if you have been contacted by Philip R Pawson (Solicitor) any views will be appreciated a combined effort by plot holders seems a good course of action !
136. Pat12/08/2008 12:26:21
How genuine is Gladwish Land Sales.
Anyone got anything good or bad to say. I found a couple of comments here, but the main comments seem to be on their partners English Land
137. Enee12/08/2008 22:36:30
Ref: 136
Gladwish is run by Victor Gladwish, he was the first person to buy and split up farming land going back 15-20 years ago.
I believe his son runs English Land.
He was cleared some years ago by the FSA.
I personally would question the value of the land they sell, going on location... BUT who knows!
138. Troga13/08/2008 20:59:42
Hi, well I just found this site now ( a year too late by the looks of it ). I bought a plot of land through Consolidated land in Ellison close,Kent a year ago with all the bells and whistles that they give you but after reading all this,anger would be an understatement. I have all the TP1's and the letter from the solicitor David Shine and Kharbanda and the land registry letter and all. I have tried to contact them tonight and as people have said on this they filter the calls so they call you back. Cant wait to speak to them if they do. Is there anything/anyone that can help with this situation? Or do I just kiss the money goodbye? Do I even own anything? Can we track these guy's down? Any info wo